Electus Matari Forums

Hello EM,

This is a request from Abysmal Eclipse corporation to join the Electus Matari alliance.

As I, Gorn Manaan, decided to go on RP path so does the corporation (as this corp is a one man corp for now). Before you ask any questions about that I'll add for such playing (RP) in my book being a one man corp shouldn't pose any problem, quite uncontrary as it will start from 'the ground up' into the RP direction. There will be a recruitment (once in the alliance), but I guess due to the recruitment requiremnts, and also giving the fact that the roleplayers out there are not in abundance, this corp probably won't be some 'big corp' at any given time (as that's not really a goal).

I am a combat pilot and very probably - I won't like discourage other professions to join / form if they want, a corporation will be also combat focused.

About the roleplaying; thankfully to kind help / explanation from some guys like Arthur Black I know how it works and I like it; in my book it's giving the meaning to the playing expirience and greatly enhancing it. At the start of my 'eve career' I was kinda a roleplayer not even been awared and realising that.

That's from me for now, and to leave some room for you and your possible questions ; ofc I'll try to anyswer on any question asked.

- Gorn Manaan

Quote:This is a request from Abysmal Eclipse corporation to join the Electus Matari alliance.

I am afraid we do not practically ever take one-man (or even couple-of-men) corporations in the alliance. We have found by experience that such arrangements cause more bureaucratic and organizational overhead than they are worth. I would suggest you build up the corporation first, and join only when you already are strong and have direction. You might want to do that in the Minmatar Militia, maybe, in order to lure the right kind of people.

Alternatively, you might want to consider just applying to one of the EM corporations yourself.

(( Also, please note that this is an in-character forum. Your chances of getting in EM are practically none if you do not write an in-character application. ))

(2010-04-19 15:33)Elsebeth Rhiannon Wrote: [ -> ]I am afraid we do not practically ever take one-man (or even couple-of-men) corporations in the alliance.

(( I've been affraid that 'one man corp not allowed' prejudice will be bringed up. But frankly I thouth in here, and with such kind of playing (RP) won't - as it shouldn't play any role. I thouth such kind of playing is above all that. ))

Quote:We have found by experience that such arrangements cause more bureaucratic and organizational overhead than they are worth.

(( How come? That's the reason? Can you please be more specific about that (why that would cause more bureaucratic and organizational overhead than they are worth) ?

Btw just as a sidenote; how or on which way do you know all corp members from some bigger corp which apply for the alliance membership are all (at once) 'converted' and decided to go RP? That looks quite unplausible to be a fact yes ? Do you interview everyone of them to check them out, one by one? Or just a CEO ? Like me. ))

Quote:I would suggest you build up the corporation first, and join only when you already are strong and have direction.

(( It's hard and a very long proccess or maybe even impossible nowdays to build a RP corp outside the RP alliance. So, why shouldn't one 'build' the RP corp inside the RP alliance? Is that impossible? Undesirable even? If so, why? Ah yes, such arrangements cause more bureaucratic and organizational overhead than they are worth...

And I have choose a direction - roleplaying and combat. If you have something other in mind can you be please more specific? ))

Quote:You might want to do that in the Minmatar Militia, maybe, in order to lure the right kind of people.

(( If that would be an option I would do that already. ))

Quote:Alternatively, you might want to consider just applying to one of the EM corporations yourself.

(( If that would be an option I would do that already. ))

Quote:(( Also, please note that this is an in-character forum. Your chances of getting in EM are practically none if you do not write an in-character application. ))

(( Sorry didn't knew that. But as it's hard to explain some things in here inside this rule and as the border between IC and 'regular convo' can be sometimes very dim and not to break it (again) I put all my answers inside the brackets. ))

A one-man corporation in a large alliance tends not to get recruits. By "tends," I mean of all the very small corporations we've had in Electus Matari, none have got any recruits - people interested in joining the alliance tend to go for one of the larger corporations. This means that being in the alliance is actually a detriment to one and two-man corporations.

We also need corporations to be active, effective and contribute to the alliance's goals. In the past, we have had CEOs of the larger alliance corporations run into the ground by trying keep micro-corps alive during the CEO's absence and by trying to anticipate their needs when making alliance decisions.

(2010-04-19 16:54)Evanda Char Wrote: [ -> ]A one-man corporation in a large alliance tends not to get recruits. By "tends," I mean of all the very small corporations we've had in Electus Matari, none have got any recruits - people interested in joining the alliance tend to go for one of the larger corporations. This means that being in the alliance is actually a detriment to one and two-man corporations.

I don't agree with that at all. That's no reason just some empty assumption. My opinion is that I would gain way easier some (RP) member into the corp if I or better said my corp would be in RP alliance. In this case (RP) that's so logical it don't even needs any further explanation. And, not all crave to be in some 'big' corporation. And, your alliance is not large.
Also, I really didn't expected this would be such an issue as I really can't see why in such playing a 'big' corp is required. As it turns out this alliance by its 'philosphy' is no better than eny other conventional alliance which rejecting small corps just because i.e. without any sound enough reason.
Amoung the other (yes ofc I done some preliminary info gathering) I asked some of the EM members via porsonal convo if the fact that this is a one man corp will pose any prob and all answers to the last one were negative. Based on this answers I decided to ask for a membership. Well as it seems I asked the wrong people... But I also got some 'warnings' from the pilots which once were in this alliance that some corps are also filled / infested with drama queens. Well as it seems won't have time neither the oportunity to check this fact out but...

And if even what you say would be true you should then be thankful to such corp(s) bringing you the others new members. So, this small corps are useful and worthed for something after all. *sarcasm mode off*

Quote:We also need corporations to be active, effective and contribute to the alliance's goals. In the past, we have had CEOs of the larger alliance corporations run into the ground by trying keep micro-corps alive during the CEO's absence and by trying to anticipate their needs when making alliance decisions.

If this interesting you then you should ask me about it, not to make yet another empty assumption. You can't possibly know how much I am active on such / your way, and I can't see what have a corp size to do with this issue; is in big corp any better if the leading people are absent for a too long?
I am active as my RL allowes me to and that's quite enough for me. As it seems I'm more active than most of you anyways; it took almost or more than a week (of their inactivity) to 'meet' some of your members (on a public channel - don't tell me now it appears so because they plug in and out of it).


Anyways, as it seems there's no dice would anyone of you be so kind to recommend me some other Minmatar RP alliance(s) ? Would be appreciated.

Thank you all for your time.

(2010-04-19 17:51)Gorn Manaan Wrote: [ -> ]

(2010-04-19 16:54)Evanda Char Wrote: [ -> ]A one-man corporation in a large alliance tends not to get recruits. By "tends," I mean of all the very small corporations we've had in Electus Matari, none have got any recruits - people interested in joining the alliance tend to go for one of the larger corporations. This means that being in the alliance is actually a detriment to one and two-man corporations.

I don't agree with that at all. That's no reason just some empty assumption. My opinion is that I would gain way easier some (RP) member into the corp if I or better said my corp would be in RP alliance. In this case (RP) that's so logical it don't even needs any further explanation. And, not all crave to be in some 'big' corporation. And, your alliance is not large.
Also, I really didn't expected this would be such an issue as I really can't see why in such playing a 'big' corp is required. As it turns out this alliance by its 'philosphy' is no better than eny other conventional alliance which rejecting small corps just because i.e. without any sound enough reason.
Amoung the other (yes ofc I done some preliminary info gathering) I asked some of the EM members via porsonal convo if the fact that this is a one man corp will pose any prob and all answers to the last one were negative. Based on this answers I decided to ask for a membership. Well as it seems I asked the wrong people... But I also got some 'warnings' from the pilots which once were in this alliance that some corps are also filled / infested with drama queens. Well as it seems won't have time neither the oportunity to check this fact out but...

And if even what you say would be true you should then be thankful to such corp(s) bringing you the others new members. So, this small corps are useful and worthed for something after all. *sarcasm mode off*

I speak from experience. One-man corps don't get recruits here, because people who join corps want people around them. A new corporation starts with no public profile, no reputation - those are things you need pilots to build, and you are more likely to get those pilots if you aren't competing directly with corporations that do have that public profile and that reputation.

(2010-04-19 17:51)Gorn Manaan Wrote: [ -> ]

(2010-04-19 16:54)Evanda Char Wrote: [ -> ]We also need corporations to be active, effective and contribute to the alliance's goals. In the past, we have had CEOs of the larger alliance corporations run into the ground by trying keep micro-corps alive during the CEO's absence and by trying to anticipate their needs when making alliance decisions.

If this interesting you then you should ask me about it, not to make yet another empty assumption. You can't possibly know how much I am active on such / your way, and I can't see what have a corp size to do with this issue; is in big corp any better if the leading people are absent for a too long?
I am active as my RL allowes me to and that's quite enough for me. As it seems I'm more active than most of you anyways; it took almost or more than a week (of their inactivity) to 'meet' some of your members (on a public channel - don't tell me now it appears so because they plug in and out of it).

I assume you sleep, whereupon your corp would have 0 people in it. I assume now and again you would be busy, whereupon your corp would have 0 people in it. In the last 4 or 5 years, we've had multiple one-person corps and they have not, in general, lasted well.

A large corp has the advantage that there are other people in it to run things. Directors can take over when the leader is away and their pilots continue to contribute.

All in all, a corporation that cannot take the time nor make the effort to build itself offers very little to us.

((Also, I'm not sure why you think an RP alliance would need anything different from its member corporations than any other one, aside from the ability to stay in character, perhaps. RP doesn't require any less effort towards excellence than anywhere else.))

Regarding the public channel, only a very few of us monitor it, and not when we're busy.

(2010-04-19 17:51)Gorn Manaan Wrote: [ -> ]Anyways, as it seems there's no dice would anyone of you be so kind to recommend me some other Minmatar RP alliance(s) ? Would be appreciated.

Thank you all for your time.

((You could try Ushra'Khan but last I heard, they weren't taking small corporations either. As far as I know, that's it for Minmatar RP alliances.))

(2010-04-19 20:42)Evanda Char Wrote: [ -> ]I speak from experience. One-man corps don't get recruits here, because people who join corps want people around them.

That 'role', for those really lonely souls, would 'play' an alliance, wouldn't be, to have people around them? Isn't the alliance also suitable for such purposes?

Quote:A new corporation starts with no public profile, no reputation - those are things you need pilots to build, and you are more likely to get those pilots if you aren't competing directly with corporations that do have that public profile and that reputation.

That all wouldn't be important and as such truly mandarory as I would recruit by other means and not at all thru the alliance forums for instance.

Thou in my book being this 'arguments' of yours irrelevant for the matter; every corporation was at the start, at its beginning, new, with no public profile, no reputation and all that... so what's your point? If you implying that only 'big' corps can have those atributes then I really have nothing more to say.

Quote:I assume you sleep, whereupon your corp would have 0 people in it. I assume now and again you would be busy, whereupon your corp would have 0 people in it. In the last 4 or 5 years, we've had multiple one-person corps and they have not, in general, lasted well.

A large corp has the advantage that there are other people in it to run things. Directors can take over when the leader is away and their pilots continue to contribute.

Leaving the first part which is kinda pointless (we all sleep and how on earth there would be 0 people in it - is that means your corp have 0 people in it when none is online?); if you see it that way then fine, I won't start convincing you now (you never asked) that I'm different from what you expirienced so far, there's no real point in it as I see it now and I won't degrade myself to a such level; you have your own well cemented opinion about and quite narrow view on it. I do respect that, wish you well in your little cage.

I saw 'large' corps instantly failling apart like -sorry- fresh pile of shit when the leading personel wasn't there for them for a couple of days. If I'm away for a couple of days so, what damage can be done? To whom (as I'm alone in the corp)? Isn't this actually the same as it would be with any other individual corp / alliance member? Why it would be different?

Quote:All in all, a corporation that cannot take the time nor make the effort to build itself offers very little to us.

Who ever said that I cannot take the time or to make an effort for the corp to build itself? Again you implying something totally out of a blue. And this 'argument' is again totally invalid and empty. And what is by your standards 'big' enough corp to be accepted? 5 members? Ten? Fefteen maybe? Twenty? Anyways, there's no way I would like to be in such alliance, to be under the pressure to spawn members to make the alliance happy and that my corp would gain / have 'the reputation', 'public profile' and whatnot.

Quote:((Also, I'm not sure why you think an RP alliance would need anything different from its member corporations than any other one, aside from the ability to stay in character, perhaps. RP doesn't require any less effort towards excellence than anywhere else.))

(( Because it's a RP by nature ofc and the only criteria really should be the ability to stay in character as you also figured out. And only that should count, not some stupid empty 'rules' which aren't even that. Or please, you enlighten me if a RP alliance need anything else beside that (but don't bother really as none of you answered to any of my questions). ))

Quote:((You could try Ushra'Khan but last I heard, they weren't taking small corporations either. As far as I know, that's it for Minmatar RP alliances.))

(( I know for Ushra'Khan and I'm not interested in them as it is primarily a null alliance and therefore out of my interest.

Well if this is all regarding the minnie RP alliances then this is pretty sad but what one can do. ))

Actually, all Else said was that we rarely take 1-member corps and suggested you make a proper application, and I explained why we rarely take 1-member corps.

Rather than explain how and why you should be the exception, you became insulting.

So far, you've certainly given me no reason to think you would be a benefit to this alliance. An alliance has to work, which means compatible personalities, the ability to pay bills, the ability to get the job done.

((It doesn't matter if the alliance is RP or not, it still has to function in Eve. We RP characters who, among other things, are trying to make the alliance succeed - we take on corporations that it makes sense for the alliance to take on for its own success. That someone RPs is not the only criterion; they have to RP someone we need. And so far, you haven't actually RPed at all.))

Fair enough. You don't or rarely accepting 1 member corp and that's it np. But you explained nothing. You just throw some quasi facts without any explanation of them and thats it np.

I wasen't been insulting (I'm sorry if you see it that way but not my fault really) but rather sarcastic as it's hard to normally answer on such 'facts' you presented, without any or very little logic in them. Why and what to explain me to be an excepion or whatever? What did you wanted to hear? Something more than you usually hear? Why? And what? That I'm a genius? That I can step? That I will acqire 20 members for my corp till end of a week? And why I'm giving you all these questions all the time? You to see how stupid some things are.
You and Elsebeth didn't asked me anything as you didn't answered to any of my questions, especially from my second post. You just trowed in here that we-don't took-1-man-corp BS and some really confused 'facts'. Don't get any false picture; I undrestand and I respect that you don't take in 1 man corps there's apsolutely np. But the level on which all the 'explanation' was done is... So this is my last post in here (if I won't be 'provoked' to answer to some other post).

(( I do RP-ing all the time and all the way; I'm speaking to you as Gorn Manaan. If that is not enough for you then I can't help you. I do RP as much as you do, and in fact you can't judging that; there's no - so you also can't be - authority on this 'field'.

Need? What do you need? A racoon roleplayer? Can't be that sorry I'm a Minmatar. What do you need beside that? As it seems we don't need each other. ))

And if by any chance you even would invite me into the alliance I would not join, no mam, I lost all my interest for that couple of posts before.

What does Electus Matari need?

We need people who have a strong manufacturing base that's complementary to what we already have.

We need people who fight and can bring enough pilots to make the extra over-head of organising another corp in the alliance worth while.

We need people who can fight without losing their temper, who can follow the standing orders, instructions and work as part of a professional fleet, and yet think for themselves when they need to.

We need people who can be trusted to do the alliance proud when on their own, when their choices represent us to the rest of the cluster.

Can you do any of that?

[edit for grammar - see http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammart...entary.asp ]